Interview with Tom Shadyac

Director, BRUCE ALMIGHTY

Press Junket - May 3, 2003

The printed interview that follows is 95% complete.

While reading this, it occurred to me that conservative Christians, who often rail justifiably at the gratuitous nature of what Hollywood produces, may have long misunderstood the role that Hollywood movies play, in God's eyes, for communicating truth to a largely unchurched populace. Is it possible that by-and-large popular movies are not for the churched (e.g. conservative Christians), but for the rest of the population who thirst for an understanding of what life is all about and how to live it meaningfully? While many of my articles have pondered this point, Mr. Shadyac takes it to a new and fresh level.

The nine writers present at this junket ask the right questions for their largely conservative audience: Why is the "F" word in this movie? Why was Bruce living out of wedlock with his girlfriend? Couldn't they have been married? Doesn't that send the wrong message to teens (and adults) watching this? Can't you make movies that are more appealing to a conservative Christian audience?

Tom's answers are more than just fascinating.

Enjoy

-- Stan Williams

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On May 2, 2003, a group of religious film writers gathered in Los Angeles to preview Jim Carrey's movie, BRUCE ALMIGHTY, and interview, among others, the director, Tom Shadyac, a committed Catholic. The event was the Press Junket, and on this occasion nine writers gathered around a table with Shadyac and quickly introduced themselves, they were:

Ted Parks -- Religious News Service, Catholic Times

Barbara Nicolosi -- National Catholic Register, The Liguorian

Phil Boatwright -- Baptist Press

Lauren Kitchens -- The Fish L.A.

Enna Waterhouse -- Christianity Today

Bobby Kim -- Relevant Magazine

Megan Basham -- Eden Communications, Christian Spotlight

Bob Smithouser -- Focus on the Family

Mark Pattison -- Catholic News Service

Sahdyac: Okay, now switch around and there will be a quiz later on.

Writers: (laughter)

Shadyac: Alright, now. Let’s all get very serious and ask religious questions.

Writers: (more laughter)

[But then the serious questions did start.]

Question: Who made the decision to have Bruce and Grace cohabitating without marriage? Is that something you had to live with?

Shadyac: Who made the decision? Or, do you want to say, “Who made the bad decision?” (Laughs)

Question: Did you pretty much have to live with that? Why the decision?

Shadyac: Why the decision? Well, Bruce really wasn’t grown up. You know, we don’t start with perfect people in movies. We start with imperfect people, and then they have to go on a journey. Let’s read the Bible and see how many people cohabitated and did imperfect things. There is shadow in the movie, and the shadow helps the light. So we are not espousing any life style. We are not telling people, “Now this is how to live!” We were telling a story. And Bruce wasn’t grown up enough. He didn’t appreciate anything in his life. I think, when you get married you have to appreciate your life and the partner that you are with. And Bruce wasn’t mature enough. It was a big step for him. And that’s why the movie ended up where it ended up. It was a choice, you know, a choice. (Pause, then with gusto and a smile) Do you forgive me?

(Audience laughs)

Question: Now that makes sense. I laughed so hard. I had not laughed that hard since I was a kid at camp. And I cried. I want everyone to see this movie. I came away so blown away by the emotion. And that frustrates me because we have to tell our readers “Should they take their kids to see this film?” And, that frustrates me because I want everybody to see this movie. I was wondering why the bedroom (scene) had to happen?

Shadyac: Yes, well again, it happens because we are storytellers. And as storytellers we are dealing with human actors, people, writers, characters. And humans, as you know, tend to make mistakes. I do not know if anyone in this group realizes it, people curse. (With feeling) They curse! And obviously it is up to parents when parents introduce that reality to their children. And they are going to get that reality at some point or another. So, parents can make choices. Our character, for example, says a curse word. And that was our choice, and it was the lowest part of this character’s evolution, you know. He would not be proud of it at the end of the movie. He would not be espousing it. He makes mistakes.

You know, I have been going to church since I was a babe. And I go to church today. And I think one of the challenges of our church, and churchgoers in general, is to accept humanity as it is. We have people in churches acting out, because they don't embrace the whole human being. They deny that we are sexual beings. Or, that we can be angry. I, as a filmmaker, am not going to deny that. I am going to embrace that. I think it’s important to embrace the whole of humanity, and to say we are imperfect. By the standards of most Christians today you could not read your Bible. I mean, the Bible is chalk full of some pretty racy stuff, folks. There’s a lot, a lot, a lot of sexual impropriety. There is violence -- all kinds of things. It’s not about a -- moment. It’s about the entire journey. If the Bible had not ended where it ended, it could be a pretty downer of a book. But, it ends with redemption. So, if you take one sentence out of the Bible, and that sentence deals with violence or sex, and you just focus on that sentence, you would not want to go near the Bible. But, if you look at the Bible as a whole, it's redemptive and beautiful and it's God’s love story to mankind.

And this (film) is our love story, I hope, in dealing with our relationship with God. And, it must deal with imperfections. There is a line that I cut from the movie where God is showing Bruce some footage of Lance Armstrong. As you know, Lance had cancer and overcame it. To paint a picture like that you've got to use some dark colors. The most powerful stories we tell in our lives are (about) people who come from dark colors. People who have been challenged by addictions, or abuse. And to overcome that is really the light overcoming the darkness. Without the darkness you have lost (both) humanity and the power of the light. (Pause and then loudly -- sounds like Jim Carrey) AMEN!

Writers: Hallelujah! (laughter)

Question: I am interested in the spirituality that underlines the whole journey aspect of the movie. God goes to a lot trouble to teach this one man to pray. How did God teach you to pray?

Shadyac: He went through a lot of trouble, I can tell you that. The movie is very personal to me in a lot of ways because I have been the guy on the ground. Struggling. “God, why don’t you answer this prayer?” I could not get work ten years ago. I couldn’t get arrested. And, I got an opportunity to direct She’s the Sheriff. And I thought for sure it was going to come through, but it didn’t. And I was screaming at the Man, the Creative Force, “Why, why, why?” Well, now in hindsight you can see why. I was being prepared. I was growing up. I was learning to be stronger. To die to my own way, and to embrace the Divine way. I think God goes through a lot of trouble with most of us, because we are stubborn, we are petulant, we are stubborn, we need a lot of help. There is a line in the movie that just kind of goes by, but that really is a significant line to me -- when Bruce tells God “I just gave everyone what they wanted.” And God says, “Since when does anyone have a clue about what they want?” We think we want the house, the car, this certain relationship. We have no idea what we really want. What we really need is freedom, to be loved, and to love. It is often quite a journey getting us to that point.

Question: There is a line in the movie where God says, “Everyone’s problem is that they keep on looking up.”

Shadyac: Yes, yes. And here comes the big controversy. Let’s stir the pot. (Laughter from audience) The key word in that sentence is “you keep looking up.” I think looking up is essential. Humility and looking to God, looking to this Divine Creative Force, is essential. Because I believe it’s a reality. It's in your blood, it's in your DNA and it's in mine. And our relationship with that Divine Force is essential. However, to keep looking up means that we depend on God to do everything for us. There is a story about a nun who went to God and said, “Why, God, don’t you do something about the people that are hungry and sick?" And God said, “I did, I made you.”

Right here (points to self) is where I need to look for God. There is a reason why Jesus went up. (Otherwise) he could be right here in this room. Jesus could be right here. He could be a producer. But he decided, I think in my own thinking anyway, to go up, and to leave us as his hands, -- as his feet, as his heart, as his expressions. So the key words there are “keep looking up.” I hope people will look up, but don’t just keep looking up.

Question: Is there significance to this incarnation of the guy who gets divine powers? Is there any connection there?

Shadyac: The incarnation? Like is there a subtle message about the incarnation? Meaning Jesus is the incarnation? I think there are subtle messages all over this movie. And you can take them for what you will, where you are standing in your particular spiritual walk. I accidentally run into them, like with the Father, Son and Holly Ghost analogies. Morgan is three guys in the movie. Morgan is the electrician, the janitor, and the boss. Father, Son, Holy Ghost -- kind of. Many were intentional and many were just coincidental -- which is one of my favorite sayings, “Coincidence is God’s way of remaining anonymous.”

We purposely did not want to be dogmatic in this movie, folks. And I think Jesus purposely did not want to be dogmatic. Jesus was a storyteller. He didn’t get into a lot of dogma when he told the story of Prodigal Son, or the Three Virgins - or was it Ten Virgins? I forget. Oh well, there were a lot of virgins in those days, anyways. But, he purposely did not get dogmatic. He was a very inclusive soul. And we are telling a parable here. And dogma - we did not want to divide with dogma. We wanted to be inclusive in our storytelling.

Question: You are a Christian you are around people in Hollywood that have been burnt by Christians. They feel like Christians don’t get it -- that Christians are harsh and so (they feel) they can’t go to church. What would you tell them, to make a difference in Hollywood?

Shadyac: Say that again, because I was...

Question: To touch folks who are lost, to touch people in Hollywood. To be able to bridge the gap between the entertainment industry and the church.

Shadyac: Well, first I think that the entertainment industry can be vilified, and we are just like everyone else. We are doing the best that we can. And we are imperfect. You know, I have been on a walk myself. And I have been part of the judgmental sect of society. So, I really understand it. You want the best for someone. You want them to see the light. But that line that you set is so important. And I think it is so important for Christians to embrace -- see things through God’s eyes. How does God see that Hollywood person who is imperfect - who may not be walking the cleanest walk right now? God sees them as beautiful, and full of potential, and full of light. And who knows, what Christian knows, what God is doing in that person’s life? It could be on that person’s deathbed that they get it. And that’s enough, because God doesn’t deal in chronos -- you know, in chronological time. He deals in cronos [Tom's use here questionable, possibly as in close friendship, e.g. crony] which is the quality of time. A moment can be eternity. I think we Christians, we people who “have seen the light,” have to get off our judgmental high thrones. I understand why -- because you want everyone to have the light. But God is working in each life, individually, independently, dependently. Allow people to go on their own imperfect journey. He will make it perfect. He is God. Okay? I think too often we try to be God. I hope that the Christian community, the very community that can embrace the movie, ought to give it a chance -- in whole. Because -- and again I use the analogy of the Bible - you could not even read the Bible unless you take it as a whole story. We get so dogmatic and close-minded. You lose the forest for the trees.

I speak at spirituality conferences, occasionally, and they only talk of religious movies as being ones that only deal with religion. And it's just not true. This one just happens to have God in it so it's seen as a religious movie. But, so many movies are “spiritual or religious” movies, and people won’t see them that way because there isn’t a priest, nun or a minister. And they'll lose the forest for the trees. Take like, and I don’t want to push Scent of a Woman, but Scent of a Woman is the book of Ecclesiastes. Now, how many Christians will stay away from that movie because there is cursing and he sleeps with a hooker? That is the book of Ecclesiastes. The man who says, “All is vanity, all is lost, I have no hope.” It is the love of a boy, the love of a child, God incarnate through a boy, comes in and says, “I love you,” and it changes his life.

We, as Christians, if we stay on our judgmental box, miss that. We miss that. We miss it. -- (pause, then loudly) AMEN!

Question: One of the things I heard, before seeing the film, was “What about this raging against God?” “Isn’t that blasphemous?”

Shadyac: Yes! I answer it with Elijah, Jonah and Job. And I answer it with my understanding of what God seeks in all of us, which is relationship. And relationship demands honesty. I don’t think we are to live in our anger and our rage. But, to express it. Again, (this is) to express a step along the journey. Bruce raged at God. A few weeks later he got to see how silly that was. How self-indulgent that was. How self-involved that was. How un-evolved that was. But, had he not raged, had he not been honest, who knows if that step would have been taken.…God loved him all along. The soil had to soften. The soul had to become more porous so the seed could take root.

Question: ...God loves everyone. But God cannot violate free will and make them love Him. My favorite scene is when Bruce is standing there secretly chanting to Grace, “Love me, love me” in an attempt to get her to love him against her free will. Morgan Freeman says to Bruce, “Welcome to my world.” I think that moment was a real window into God for the audience.

Shadyac: Yes, God cannot make you love him, that’s the thing.

Question: That’s high theology.

Shadyac: Yes it is! He says “How can you make someone love you if you can not effect free will.” (God) says, “Welcome to my world, son.”

Question: ...We are not puppets...

Shadyac: Yes, and because we have free will, you must introduce the shadow. That’s why I say this movie is appropriate. Even in its imperfections, its moments where it dips into what some would consider the dark. It’s important. It’s an important part of the story telling. Because he gave us free will. And what we do with that free will is really up to us. And we make mistakes, but the light is a